Game of Thrones - Raines of Castamere...

[shadowkat]

Eh believe it or not, this scene was far gorier in the books. Sort of glad they didn't go there.

But in both cases it upset me, because of Arya mostly...and the fact that Robb and Catlynn had finally grown on me. It also deadened me to anything that could happen afterwards.

Weird that his wife was there and pregnant. She wasn't in the books. But I now know why - to explain why Robb is rendered defenseless and doesn't run.

Forgot the Blackfish was there...thought he wasn't. And they didn't do the scene with Edmund Tully in the bath with his new wife, who warns him when the song begins. Did it here - with Catelynn recognizing the song and seeing Lord Bolton's expression and the closing of the gates.

Oh well at least Theon wasn't on. But I missed the Lannisters quite a bit. Even though it's made clear by Lord Bolton that Tywin Lannister was behind it - when he says, "The Lannisters send their regards" - when he stabs Robb through the back.



ETA:..there be spoilage in the comments thread.

Comments

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

I was glad too that they handled the Red Wedding that way. Made the final moment so much more impressive, too.

Since I knew mainly what was coming, my first reaction when I heard "The Rains of Castamere" was that it's a much slower version of the tune they use for "The Bear, The Bear, and the Maiden Fair." Or maybe that's my imagination?

Also, the scene where Arya sees them kill Robb's wolf may well have been in the book--just didn't remember it. So sad.

I've always wondered if those wolves who are killed are going to return as some kind of creature in the final book.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

That scene wasn't in the books.

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

Thanks. A hard scene to watch.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I don't have HBO, so I have to depend on the DVDs, but I imagine it was. When I read the books, I sensed that the whole setup was a trap, but didn't realize how far it would go.

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

Yeah, GRRM doesn't let you off easy. I suspect that Jon Snow, Arya, Bran, and Dani will survive to the last book at least, but he could kill them off in the next one, too.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

My difficulty with GRRM...is whenever a character sets off on a quest to find another character - you know they are doomed. There's no way he's going to let them find each other. One or the other will either die, or they'll end up going in the opposite direction. I want to tell the characters...eh don't bother, you'll never find them. This is futile. He needs to stop doing that - it's getting a tad too predictable.

Also, I swear Ayra's story in Clash and Storm is amongst the most frustrating in the books - she basically wanders around, watches the people she cares about get killed, and every time she thinks she'll be reunited with her mother - someone pulls the rug out from under her.

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

The Slate discussion of this episode (http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/tv_club/features/2013/game_of_thrones/week_9/red_wedding_the_freys_and_the_starks_meet_at_the_twins.html) makes good points about the difference with the book, esp. re Catelyn.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

Nice. Thanks for the link.

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Since I knew mainly what was coming, my first reaction when I heard "The Rains of Castamere" was that it's a much slower version of the tune they use for "The Bear, The Bear, and the Maiden Fair." Or maybe that's my imagination?

I think the confusion is that they used the instrumental version of "The Rains of Castamere" to play over the scene of Jaime rescuing Brienne in the episode called "The Bear and the Maiden Fair." The Bolton soldiers sang "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" in the episode where Jaime loses his hand (and then they did a rocking out version of it over the end credits) and also sang it to Brienne in the bearpit, but as soon as Jaime delivers his "sorry about the sapphires" line to Locke, they switched to the "Rains of Castamere" instrumental version as the Lannisters' song of triumph :D Hope that helps!!

Also, the scene where Arya sees them kill Robb's wolf may well have been in the book--just didn't remember it. So sad.

In the book, Arya and Sandor are actually attacked by Frey soldiers and Sandor kills some of them with Arya helping. Grey Wind is freed by Robb's squire (who is Jeyne Westerling's brother) and he does some damage to the Freys/Boltons before they bring him down (and kill Jeyne's brother as well) but we don't see it as it's happening, just hear about it afterwards.

[mamculuna.livejournal.com]

I'm not much of a musician, but I was actually thinking of the "The Bear" as sung in the credits. Probably way off, if I actually heard them together.

And thanks! Now that you remind me, I do remember how Arya;s and Grey Wind's parts went down.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I'd forgotten that Rains of Castamare was the Lannister House Song or Theme Song. Although Cersei does sort of tell Margery the back story behind the song in the previous episode, but I didn't realize that the song she was referring to was her house's theme song. Oh dear. That sort of makes it doubly chilling.

I do remember Ayra and Sandor fighting off the Frey soliders and someone hitting her over the head with an ax - but they didn't do that here, thank god. Probably decided the episode was busy and traumatic enough as is? (Oh apparently the girl playing Ayra is 16? This is always jarring to me in television series - the kids are played by people five -ten years older than the character's actual age, with few rare exceptions. That said, she's still very well cast. As is the kids playing Bran and Rickon...Bran is mesmerizing. That kid needs to be cast in more roles.)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Question:

Do you remember what if anything Jamie knew regarding Tywin Lannister's plans in regards to Red Wedding. If memory serves, he knew nothing. It makes no sense logically that he would. But maybe I'm forgetting something? Hey, it's possible? Am I right? Did he know nothing?

Apparently there's a tumblr blog with quotes and pics of the series and books, hinting at this?


http://queencersei.tumblr.com/tagged/page_to_screen

[reginaspina.livejournal.com]

Do you remember what if anything Jamie knew regarding Tywin Lannister's plans in regards to Red Wedding. If memory serves, he knew nothing. It makes no sense logically that he would. But maybe I'm forgetting something? Hey, it's possible? Am I right? Did he know nothing?

He knew nothing. I mean, he knew Bolton was switching sides, because otherwise Bolton would have killed him or shipped him back to Robb Stark, not sent him to Tywin. But the specifics, that it would be assassination at the wedding, not in the least. The plot began more or less as soon as Robb married Jeyne Westerling (in the books)/Talisa (on the show). In the books, Roose and Walder Frey start this plot very early on (at the point where Arya is Roose's cupbearer - not Tywin's of course, that was only on the tv show - at Harrenhal which is when the news of Robb's marriage leaks, but Arya doesn't understand what's going on.) Roose says he's going to "hunt some wolves" and later, he sends a bunch of Northmen led by Stark loyalist lords into a hopeless battle where most of them die, and he's already married Walder Frey's daughter by then. (And Tywin's sister is married to a Frey as well, so he's got an in with Walder already.)

But Jaime is blameless in the plotting, having been a prisoner the whole time (and then getting his hand cut off.) I suppose he could have argued with Roose about switching sides and insisted that Roose send him to Robb instead of to Tywin, but that level of saintly martyrdom is probably not one we should expect from Jaime. Or anyone, really :P

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thank you. That's what I thought I remembered. But you never know.

Also it makes logical sense. Say what you will about Jamie - but there is no way he could have plotted or knew about the Red Wedding...he was either in prison, with Brienne, getting his hand cut off and trying to survive with Locke/Vargo (in the books - they seem the same to me, don't know why they didn't keep them the same), and keep Brienne safe. Plus Bolton wasn't exactly forthcoming with info - nor would he be.

Fandom, sigh, it never changes regardless of the material. Still lacking in the logic department.

The plot with the Westerling's was convoluted. I remember it being explained more in full in Feast of Crows. You almost have to read Feast of Crows to understand some of the machinations behind what happened in Storm. Just as you have to read Storm to figure out what was happening in Game and Clash or rather why. (the mysteries regarding Brann and John Arryan are both revealed in Storm, while the mysteries regarding Red Wedding and to a degree Joffrey are revealed in Feast.) You really can't skim in these books - you miss stuff.