Reviews of Buffy S8 Issue 36 and that Riley Shot (Yes, I caved, can't you tell?)

[shadowkat]

[Yes, I'm editing this post, because I posted it at midnight last night and woke up this morning realizing I forgot to talk about some of the best bits. ]

So, since it was such an incredibly beautiful day - I decided to hike up to the promenade, check out the aforementioned comics, the promenade and pick up miniature chocolate, key lime, and mango mousses from Green Mountain Grocer (they have great mousses, and well I've got a craving.) I was not planning on buying the comic - I was planning on just checking it out.

(Halfway through the Buffy comic)
Comic book store gal: Miss? Miss? [At least she's not calling me M'Am, I hate M'am.] Excuse me? I can't permit you to read the entire comic in the store. (I look up and at comic book store gal - who has really ugly tattoos all over her body, heavy-set, dressed entirely in black, with some weird heavy metal band or something on the t-shirt, glasses, black fizzy hair, nose and lip piercings and clearly no older than 20.)

Me : Yeah, I guess that makes sense since you sort of want me to actually buy the comic. (Pause) Would it help if I told you that I already know everything that happens in it? And am just checking it out to see if I want to actually buy the thing? Because you know they've gotten progressively worse? (Look of death) Guess not. (I proceed to flip through the Riley one-shot to see if it is worth the price of admission...and then, feeling tension, feel guilty and purchase them. I really miss RocketShip.) So, out of curiousity how are the sales going for this one?

Comic book store gal (mumbles): the Buffy comic? Okay I guess. (another polite look of death). (Alrighty then, It's been one of those weeks.)

I read the things when I got home. Figured what the hell. Wasn't planning on writing a review, because let's face it everyone and their significant other, best bud, and mother has beaten me to it. Do you really want to read another one? What else can possibly be said on the matter? I say this after having scanned or read over 20 of them - most of them on my flist. The most detailed are moscow_watcher, local_max, beergoodfoamy , and 2maggie2 as well as angeria. My favorite? Is still aycheb but that's partly because I'm a movie buff and her review made me laugh my ass off. It should be noted, by the way, that as impossible as it may sound? I basically agree with all of these reviewers, at least in part. So, where was I? Wasn't planning on writing a review but thought, what the hell. You don't have to read it after all. Warning much snark ensues and some meta/analysis - on both issues, so if you don't like snark - you might not want to read it. It's not as snarky as beergood's, but close enough. In fact if you want - previouslies, go find his, most like on Dreamwidth. Also, a lot of spoilers - so if you haven't been spoiled by reading all the other reviews don't read this one.

Buffy Issue 36 and Riley One Shot Reviews

Let the emotional moments really land and don't use a lot of words to make that happen - it's all demonstrated through action - Jane Espenson's advice to inspiring writers. (Pity she didn't take her own advice while writing the Riley comic and Retreat, but what can you do?)

I've worked with Joss for more than ten-years, and I've picked up whatever I can about writing character-driven genre stories, but this was the best chance I've had to work hand in hand on a story. - Scott Allie (Hmmm, I thought editors work hand-in-hand with writers, particularly in comics on writing a story? Guess I was wrong. )

From the cover of Buffy 36 - to the epic battle, we expect passionate reactions from the die-hard fans - Scott Allie (Such as viceral hatred and vows never to read anything Dark Horse publishes ever again? Somehow I doubt that. Or incredulous laughter at the absurdity? Nah.)

[Warning - I think this is longer than the actual comics. Also multiple typos, because I did not proofread or edit this thing. I did proof and edit, but I'm human and I screw up, deal with it. I haven't even re-read it. So it's very rough. If you link to it and you have my permission to, of course, (I'm not necessarily asking you to, just granting permission - there is a difference. Yes, it's nice to be linked to, but... people who follow the link must behave themselves - which means no sending my blood pressure sky-rocketing through the roof because you hate my opinion. Rants against me or my friends or fellow fans must be restricted to your own journals. Disagreements are permitted, just no bashing of me, my frirends or fellow fans. And keep in mind these are just my opinions. They aren't gospel. ]

The Riley comic first - Commitment through Distance, Virtue through Sin

I picked up this comic because I thought it would tell me something I didn't already know about Twilight's plan and why Riley decided to play double-agent for Buffy. Also that it was necessary in order to fully understand what was going on in issue 36. Plus would actually develop Sam and Riley beyond the poor man's/watered down version of Mr. & Mrs. Smith. Silly me. While it does in some respects clarify the general romantic theme, and explain in no uncertain terms why Angel is a narcissistic, vain, douche that only an idiotic, somewhat shallow, and incredibly insecure 16 year old girl (ie. Bella) squeeing over Twilight novels could possibly adore - it doesn't really do much more than that. [As an aside - is it just me or is every B-list female writer hopping on the vampire gothic romance bandwagon. Talk about market saturation. Do we really need novels from Nancy Holder and Janet Evanovich on this topic? And can they be any more redundant? I know that there aren't any original plots, but this is getting ridiculous. They had ads for both in the comics.]

Espenson takes 16 pages to tell us why Sam persuades Riley to join Buffy. (I'm guessing if she knew it would result in him being critically injured by big TellyTubby Tibetian Goddeses - while the world went to hell in a hand-basket, because Buffy decided to boink Twilight - she might have had second thoughts. Seriously, feeling better about going on a crazy government assignment - without Riley in tow - is not worth that. ) Granted, during said conversation - which appears to take three-four days, as they not only disarm (or rather attempt to disarm) a missile, fly out and parachute to a boat that takes them to the coordinates the missile was set to target (to which, Riley comments - "Maybe it wasn't smart for us to come to the target coordinates" - you think?? ), then wander through a pitch black cave (where they continue to have this discussion - uh, considering you are supposed to be fooling Twilight into thinking that you are betraying Buffy and not working for her - don't you think you might want to be a little more careful about what you say? Riley - still not the brightest bulb in the universe. Although considering who Twilight is, I wouldn't worry too much. )

Meanwhile as a counter point, Angel has another deep and meaningful discussion with Whistler. Who has proven himself to be so trustworthy and reliable in the past, as for that matter have the PTB, that Angel barely questions what he has to say. I mean why should he not trust Whistler - after all Whistler told him to help Buffy and that he'd save the world in Becoming. And why should he mistrust the powers? It's not like their visions ever lead him astray or got any of his friends or the people he cares about killed in any way. Oh he does question him, well sort of, it's not very heartfelt, because all Whistler has to do to quiet Angel's qualms is promise that he'll be the "noble" hero. Whistler says exactly what Angel needs to hear - he's the boss, the important one, not Buffy, he'll save her by torturing her, his personal sacrifices will result in the greater good! Hey it's not like Angel hasn't fallen for this line before. He hasn't fucked some blond past love senseless, gotten her pregnant, so their son can screw his other ex, get her pregnant, give birth to a powerful god that will remake the world in her image - where everybody is happy, except for those poor unfortunate souls that get devoured and slaughtered in the process of creating a happy new world. Nor has Angel ever been tricked into throwing the world into hell just to you know get rid of a big bad. Nah, not Angel.

None of this comes as a revelation. The main point of the comic is this: " Riley and Sam work because they are partners, they discuss things, they trust one another implicitly, and are not seeking each other's approval and/or permission. Neither bosses the other around. Neither is superior. They are EQUALS in all ways. (Basically the cheap version of Aeryn Sun and John Crichton on Farscape). While Buffy and Angel have the classic abusive relationship from fairy tale and/or romantic fantasy hell. No trust. No meaningful discussion - and little communication. No support. One party dominating the other or forcing the other to do what they believe is right, and for their own good - often by violence. And they don't trust each other, because that just wouldn't be romantic. " Emphasis here on the word TRUST. Narcissus would be envious. Got it. Now, can we get back to the actual plot? Guess not. The comic ends with Riley agreeing to join Twilight and getting Twilight's signal carved into his chest.

The following bits of dialogue pretty much sum up the point of this issue and the emotional theme:

Riley (in response to Sam's statement that it's okay to go help Buffy and be separated from her): I don't like this. It makes me feel like...too free. Like you and me, like we're not tied together.

Sam: We're not. We're together because we want to be. There are no ties.

Riley: No ties. That's kind of scary as hell.

Sam: But Good. Riley. It's good. It's better. [Because I TRUST you!]

Twangel - You have to decide whether your loyalty lies with the girl or with the world?

Riley - Buffy. [Because I trust her to put the world first. She's saved it and me before.]

Earlier:

Twangel in response to Whistler's question will Riley sign up: Riley Finn? Maybe. He's no fan of magic. Very humans first. I don't get what she saw in him.

Simple. One word. Trust. Riley trusts Buffy. You won't.

[What astonishes me about the Riley One Shot and the entire Buffy comics arc - is that they go out of their way to underline all the deeply flawed character traits in Angel that most people can't stand. He is not sympathetic in this issue. He comes across as a narcissistic idiot. Who clearly hasn't learned a thing from what happened to Wesely, Cordelia, and Doyle or for that matter Connor. An on-going theme in the Angel series is that every time Angel tries to help or take you in, he destroys you. He trusts no one, so no one can trust him. And he's easily manipulated by villains because he so desperately wants someone to tell him he's important and has a higher purpose and being "cursed" with a soul means something besides you know being cursed for being a mean SOB. But at least in the series - he was sympathetic, we saw it through his pov and to a degree identified with his struggle. It is possible that I didn't give Boreanze enough credit as an actor in conveying that human vulnerability and desire to be good, while failing miserably at it. But I don't think so. I think the writing was tighter and better on the series than it is here. What they often accomplished in a five minute scene on Angel, they take 11 pages to convey here.]



Buffy Issue 36 Review.



It's probably worth stating that the titles of these issues actually are a clue. The Last Gleaming is a line from the Star Spangled Banner. "And Twilight's last gleaming, the banner yet wave..." or something like that. The Star Spangled Banner was I believe written during the Civil War - which Whedon continues to be obsessed with for some reason. Not the easiest song on the planet to remember. I personally prefer America the Beautiful, but that's just me. The Riley one shot was Committment by Distance - (Riley) and Virtue through Sin (Angel). [And as an aside? Buffy, hon, you got the worst taste in men. You had Riley, Xander, Spike and Angel to pick from and you pick Angel? WTF??] Not sure Riley's whole plan to help Buffy by spying on Twangel was the smartest move on the planet. It's not surprising he didn't figure out anything - a) he doesn't really know Angel, so how could he know Angel would don a Mexican Wrestler's mask as a homage to a dead and somewhat idiotic not to mention bitter Mexican wrestling superstar and superhero who nobly died with his five brothers to save the world? (That was supposed to a parable, but Angel being Angel decided to follow in the guys footsteps.) b) He also couldn't know that Angel doesn't trust anyone unless they are a talking dog, a Mexican Wrestling superstar, a funky demon who gets visions, or a representative of the powers, everyone else? Not so much. So getting close to Twangel to figure out his plan - not going to accomplish much. I think Riley's sole purpose in the comics was basically the same purpose it was in Season 4, 5 and 6, which is to comment on Buffy's insane penchant for abusive untrustworthy boyfriends over nice guys. An on-going theme. (Was Joss Whedon rejected in a former life for a douchebag? Was his father a douchebag? Did his mother skip town on his Dad for a douchebag? Or is this just a thinly disguised commentary on female romantic gothic fiction?)

Anywho...

Angel and Spike both accidentally destroy critical landmarks. Spike is amused, Angel sulks. But that's because Spike is gifted with a sense of humor, while Angel takes himself far too seriously and well the small fact that Angel apparently thinks he's destroyed LA again in an attempt to save it (he keeps doing that, you'd think he'd learn by now not to trust the PTB and uh, do nothing), Spike on the other hand is in a middle of a fight and sort of pleased that the wankers have disappeared. (Speaking of...if we have to bring back past big bads/wnakers? Why can't we have The Mayor, the Mayor had a sense of humor. Angel and the Master, not so much. Next, we'll probably have the annoited or is that annoying one, just to make things complete.]

Timeline? Not sure it really matters at this point. But I'm guessing from this issue that the Buffy comics take place at least two years after the events of Not Fade Away. Why? Because Spike clearly has been off in another dimension fighting space aliens for quite some time and not in hell LA. And get's back to London somewhere between Wolves at the Gate and Spacefucking. Takes him a bit of time to get up to speed, once he does - he rushes to the scene. Angel? I'm not sure where he's popped in from - I'm guessing Hell LA, but it could literally be anywhere. Also - it appears that Lynch's ATF is as I previously suspected canonical to this universe. Although, I think should be taken far more satirically than many took it. Also the ending was probably different. In short, no, Angel is not a noble hero, he was the idiot who took LA to hell while trying to save it and through no act of his, LA is back and the whole time in Hell did not happen.

Angel: Are you here to tell me I've got a higher purpose? [Sigh always wanting the higher purpose. You are a vampire, stupid. There isn't any higher purpose - outside killing people that is and well now that you have a soul, not killing people and helping them instead - didn't we already cover this way back in 2001 or was it 2000, can't remember? Sigh insecure, much? ]
Talking Dog: You betcha. (nah, he's here to tell you that you got the part on a tv series. What do you think?)
Angel: Does it involve killing? (Doesn't it always? What else are you good for? Besides spacefucking. Seriously?)
Angel: If this is a dream, I'm getting a shrink like Wesely begged.
(Yes, why don't you go do that? And plus - clear shout-out to Lynch ATF. Only the ending appears to have been somewhat changed.)
Talking dog easily convinces Angel to stay, by telling Angel exactly what he wants to hear. Angel grouses about not being a fan of complicated.
Talking dog: I know. Even when things get the most complicated, you remain doggedly simple. That's part of why you were chosen. [What's that saying? If at first you don't succeed in sending the world to hell? Try, try again? Note to PTB, ie Whedon - you might want to try manipulating a less simple soul next time...just saying. Although to be fair - Angel has almost sent the world to hell at least twice now...so who knows, the third time might be the charm? Now, if that tricky character Spike just would not get in the way...]

Then Oceanic Flight 815 pops up and splits apart over Hollywood, California, as opposed to the island, as it did on tv. (Did we just pop into the Lostverse for a minute? Isn't this universe wonky enough without doing a cross-over with Lost? No wait, Angel saves the plane -- so Lost never happens in the Buffyverse. Whew. One group of lost and insane characters is enough, I imagine. Is that supposed to be Kate from Lost that Angel is embracing? Nah, no freckles, just a mole or is that a pimple, hard to tell. No, it's the talking dog who has now taken the form of Kate or a random passenger. ]

Now we leap over to Spike - and find out what he's been up to. Or have we landed in Farscape? First Lost, now either Doctor Who or Farscape, can't decide which. A bit more steam-punk than Who or Farscape though. Wait, maybe it is Buckaroo Bonzai? Or Buck Rodgers. Nah, has to be British. I know, Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy by way of Buckaroo Bonzai. With a bunch of mechanical bugs who appear to be Spike's acolytes or servants, not quite henchmen. (Note - Jeanty is better at drawing mechanical bugs than Centaurs and humans, I'm guessing he's doing the wrong genre.) Spike and the mechanical bugs have been fighting Wankers. Also Spike like Angel can survive out in the open air - oxygen not being an issue. (And yes, regardless of what that blurb in tiny print at the front of the issue states - Spike is still a vampire. Apparently that was a typo? Wait, typo? Doesn't this thing have an editor? Goes back to check - it has three editors. I guess they figured no one reads the tiny blurbs at the front of the issue? Doesn't explain the rest of the issue though.]

Spike doesn't get any visitations from PTB. Makes sense - after all Spike keeps foiling their plans. (Stupid Trickster character...you weren't supposed to last more than 4 episodes. Stop messing with my plan to send the world to hell! )Instead he does research via newspapers and computers. (Does Angel even know how to use a computer? Can't remember him ever using one? Course why would he need to? That's what henchmen, visions, and the PTB are for.)

Present day at Castle Buffy, apparently we've moved from Tibet to Castle Buffy sometime between issue 35 and issue 36.

Satsu (at least I think it is Satsu, hard to tell, could be Faith or Kennedy): Let's move people, in case you haven't noticed there are giants in the sky. [Actually they looked like demons to me, but whatever.]

And we get the Buffy/Angel talk. Which doesn't really tell us anything we didn't already know from issues 34-35, but hey just in case we weren't paying attention...

Angel (regarding Spike): Buffy I don't trust him. (Angel, hon, you don't trust anyone except for talking dogs, and random strangers who talk to you out of nowhere and tell you that they are the PTB and you have a higher purpose. Considering Spike's saved your behind and Buffy's a few times, plus your son's and several other people, and fought by your side the last time you sent the world to hell...yet, you trust Whistler (a guy who never does anything but talk) and a talking dog?)]
Buffy: Angel I don't trust you, but you have my heart. So what can I do? (Doesn't matter if you kill all my friends, destroy my world, etc - I still love you, because you remind me of my Daddy and I just can't help myself because you know, he abandoned me when I was 16 and you came along and took me ice-skating and stuff. With you I can be sixteen forever. Bad taste in men? Buffy? Nah. Buffy, hon...if you want to know why OZ, Riley, Willow, Xander, and Dawn have found happiness in their relationships and you just get angst - it's one little word? TRUST. Sigh, you are still unbaked cookie dough, we get it. But we thought you had an epithany in S6 when you told Spike that wild passionate love without trust was not love, and would destroy everything. What happened to that Buffy? Did she get replaced by a pod!Person? Because I want that Buffy back.) And he has a ship - (yep, one that is rescuing all of your friends from the demons that you and Angel unleashed on the world.)

Angel: It's too convenient him showing up now? He's got an agenda. [Yep, he probably wants to stop you from destroying the world again. Because he happens to like the world, happy meals on legs, smashing big ben, and Manchester United.]
Buffy: Well it's like to be a lot simpler than yours. [You hope. And actually Ange;s wasn't that complicated. Manipulate you into Fucking his brains out so you can give birth to a new reality, where no one but you and Angel exist and can have babies and be Adam and Eve. While everyone else perishes. You just want it to be complicated. Spike's on the other hand...sigh. ] And right now it's useful. [Remains to be seen, but hey at least he's rescuing people and not killing anything. Point for Spike.]The last time I saw spike he died saving me and my people (While the last time I saw you, you were trying to kill me and my people. Does my taste suck or what?)
Angel: He told me like four thousand times. (Actually only twice. You exaggerate. Poor baby. Pets Angel.)


Now I love this speech:
Buffy (who appears to be possessed by channeling Sookie Stackhouse and Bella, two heroines who think with their crotchs, still reassuring an insecure Angel...who she's just had space sex with and apparently loves no matter what he's done or made her do): This is the weirdest, bestest day of my life, what you've done - for me, I can't describe (cartoon sex), I can't pronounce (orgasmic sex), you gave me perfection ( a world where I don't have to give a shit about anyone or anything but myself, narcissistic bliss plus did I just mention? Orgasmic sex! By the way - orgasmic sex - results in a sort of oblivion, you leave your body or appear to and are high! Buffy is a sex addict, who knew.), Jesus Angel, that's not just the love of my life. That's the guy I would live with. (I can't trust you. You are always telling me what to do. OR I'm telling you what to do. You don't trust me. And our relationship apparently hasn't evolved past the 11th grade. Plus you apparently have the IQ of a dog (no offense to dogs, but they are not the brightest animals on the planet) But hey, what's that matter, when we loooove each other and have great sex - apparently S6 Buffy and S7 Buffy is gone.)

Then Willow turns Angel into a Frog and states, Whoah, hey, I missed, my bad. (Something tells me she didn't. Why she turned him back, I'll never know. Come on Willow - Frogs - cute pets. By the way - isn't Willow afraid of Frogs? Maybe that's why she turned him back? )

Buffy: What we did - it released these demons. All over. They're gonna target slayers.
Angel: Are you sure? (nah, Angel, they are gonna target vampires...what do you think?)
Buffy: Well everyone else has. (yep, including your true love, but let's not think about that.)

Angel: I got more powerful not remotely mature (or intelligent for some reason) I'll find you soon.
Buffy: You better. (sigh. But not before I save the world with Spike again.)

Faith: Where's the man-bitch formerly known as Angel? (Faith, you have such a way with words.)
Buffy: Protecting slayers (because apparently sending out the guy who was targeting slayers and convincing everyone to kill and torture slayers is the best person in the world to protect them. But hey, we're going to keep his henchmen in prison because they are so much more dangerous...you know the henchmen who switched teams and tried to help us stop him.)

Buffy and Spike chat.

Buffy: Let's do this in order. One, thanks for saving us from the ubervamps, that was crazy studly, and sorry I haven't been in touch but as you can see I'm somehow leading an army. [Okay - I've waited four years for that sentence? Seriously, Joss, you couldn't have written that a lot earlier? Talk about anti-climatic! And of course it's all about Buffy, no one else matters and on one else exists outside her scope.]
Spike: Your Wel - [Why bother Spike? Seriously?]
Buffy: Two, what do you know and how can you help. No jokes, no snark, no British slang that just means something dirty. [What? Come on give a guy a break. You just buggered the villain in front of everybody which caused the apocalypse. At least let us snark and make jokes about it. You are frigging lucky we aren't doing anything else.]
Spike: One under all that demon viscera, you still reek of him (and seriously the demon viscera smells better but I'm being polite) and that's not a treat for me - but it can't be Buffy if she doesn't boink the bad guy right? [Yes. Sigh. Buffy - you really need to get help for that sex addiction. Just saying.]
Buffy: snark. [Honey, you lost the right to complain when you boinked Twangel in space.]
Spike: Comes with the sizable package. Two you can under no circumstances trust him.
[Yeah, she knows that. But that doesn't mean she can't fuck him. Sex addiction. Hello?]
Buffy: Can everybody just agree not to trust anybody and you get to the frikkin point?[Especially not you. Honey, if you trusted your brain and not your crotch, we wouldn't be in this situation. Also may I just point out that we have a heavy focus on the word TRUST here? Buffy can't trust anyone. See, it's hard to trust people - they let you down, their crap gets in the way, but if you don't trust people - you end up alone and disconnected and miserable. So really? You sort of have to take the risk at some point.]

[In short: Buffy tries to dominate Spike and put him in his place, treat him like he's the untrustworthy person in the mix, the guy with the agenda. But he shuts her down by pointing out that a) she boinked the big bad again, b)her fuckfest gave birth to a brand new universe which she promptly ditched because you know, everyone was dying because of it, and said universe is going to mightily upset about being abandoned. (Apparently universe's have feelings and ship relationships, who knew? Actually, the universe appears to be an actual "character". I don't remember this happening in Star Trek. Note to Whedon - sci-fi? So...not your forte. Excuse me, not universe, higher dimension, there is a difference. I think. He appears to use both word synomously.) ]

Spike launches into exposition. Because you know, it's not like we don't know what's going on or anything. Wait we don't. We have no clue who the bad guy is - or who the good guys are or even what Twilight is. Or the problem for that matter. Or why Buffy has sold herself body and soul to Twangel, after Twangel killed half her army, Riley, OZ, and Bay (at least I think he did, can't tell what happened to OZ, Riley, and OZ's wife Bay - they sort of disappeared after Buffy got superpowers). [Also, this is issue 36 - now we are getting the exposition? And from the letter's page it will apparently continue into much of issue 37. I thought exposition was something you did at the beginning of a story, not at the very end to explain said story to the reader? It's suppose to you know set up the story, give us an idea who the bad guys are and who the good guys are, and what the problem is. It's not supposed to explain the problem and bad guys to us after the fact. Who is editing this thing? ]

And Spike announces with great drama: "the seed of wonder" - this is apparently the thing causing all their problems. [Hmm Seed of Wonder...not say Seed of Glory or Seed of Destruction...but Wonder, which is sort of a synomyme for Gleaming and effulgent. And why are we just hearing about this now?] (In Allie's interview - he said they didn't have time to do any character exploration with Spike. Or discuss the whole Buffy/Spike relationship or show how she found out Spike was alive. Makes sense - they need to explain the plot first and that's going to take at least two - three issues, and then they need to tell us the theme because it's not like we haven't been discussing the themes for the last 36 issues plus all the one shots. (In case you were asleep - it has to do with Trust and Power.] And if we waste time developing these characters and showing you these little tid-bits, it will be boring...much more fun is we talk about the seed of wonder and have Buffy convey her undying devotion and love to Twangel who has stupidly sent the world to hell again, killing half her friends, and forcing her to try and save it with Spike, again. That's a much more interesting story after all. Also, we must of course show skinless Wareen kissing Amy...must have time for that. Because skinless Warren is cool! (even if Willow burned him up in the actual tv series, the PTB (writer) liked him - so he's back.)

Now...Spike tells us that we're currently on the road to the heart of all magic (not Stonehenge, because that would be cool, no...) There was one time, a house of worship (I think its the one Willow raised, but not positive), swallowed by the earth, over which they built a city (also swallowed by the earth)...gee, wonder what this place is? Can you guess? Give up? It's Sunnydale! And guess who is back holding the seed of wonder in the hellmouth? The Mayor? No, because that would be funny and it can't be funny. Glory? Of course not. Adam? Definitely not. The First? Hardly. Drusilla? Nah. No...it's The Master. (Wait, didn't Buffy smash his bones into smithereens in S2? Yeah, well, here's the thing about bad guys in soap operas, fantasy films and tv shows, and comic books - they can't die. Remember the Terminator? I'll be back?? Well, this is apparently true of all the big bads on Buffy - that the writer happens to be attached to. Nice characters like Tara, Joyce and Anya? Yes, they die and often stay dead forever. You can't bring them back because that would lessen the whole impact. But nasty monsters and bad guys? No. Because if you kill them, you have to create a new villain and what would be the fun in that? Much more effective, not to mention easier, to resurrect the old villain. You don't have to develop them or anything. Plus - you got the whole evil immortality metaphor working for you. As Straub states in A Dark Matter - evil is staying alive forever, wanting to never die, cheating death. That said, Joss, you couldn't have brought back the Mayor instead? He's a father figure too - granted for Faith, but still. And..granted not a vampire - so you have the annoying snake metaphor instead of the immortality metaphor. Plus too obvious. Much safer to go with MR. Punch Mouth. Even if it is far less entertaining to the readers. I mean why go with an interesting villain when you can go with your fans least favorite villain (okay, my least favorite villain). And well, the Master is the grandsire of both Angel and Spike. Also the sire of Buffy's death - which by the way was instigated by Angel's devotion to Prophecy. Angel according to Whistler was supposed to get Buffy killed by giving Giles the prophecy which caused Buffy to go to her death, and then save the world himself from Accathla. That was the prophecy. But Xander, who unlike Angel, trusted Buffy over silly prophecies, brought her back to life and helped Buffy and Spike defeat Angel and Accathla from sending the world to hell. Got to hate those tricky characters.)

Buffy to Dracula: Oh please, I watch your movies you always come back. {And so does the Master apparently.)

In case you are wondering why Whedon chose the Master? It's Buffy's Daddy issues. Instead of featuring Hank Summers as the big bad, which I guess would have been too obvious and direct, Whedon is trying to be subtle and introducing the MASTER. The Master was the villain in S1, the guy who poppped up after her Daddy told her she sucked in Nightmares and turned her into a vampire. Nightmares pretty much sums up the whole Buffy psych regarding vampires, Daddy, and abusive boyfriends/fathers.

Conclusion - or why bother bashing Buffy and Angel, and Bangle, when Whedon can do it for you?

What I find mind-boggling about all this - is that Whedon has managed to do quite a number on Angel and Buffy. He's managed to turn Angel into a loathsome, narcissistic, self-absorbed, holier-than-thou, jerk, and Buffy into a mindless lovesick, narcissistic, nitwit. Kudos. Granted it's not that hard to do with Angel, but Buffy...took considerable work. Most writers tend to veer away from doing that sort of thing. But not Whedon. I can't quite decide if this is brave or incredibly stupid? But you have to admire the effort and detail that went into it. I've read grudge fanfic writers that fans have targeted as masters of character assignation and bashing that didn't do it quite this well.

And Whedon didn't do it by himself or in just one issue either - this has been a sustained effort over the course of 36 issues and four years. Deliberate in fact. He literally underlines all the flaws in both characters and diminishes or in some cases, erases their strengths, to the point that they aren't even mildly sympathetic any longer. What their detractors dislike about them the most. Not only underlines but emphasizes it. Then, he takes it a step further - he underlines why the Buffy/Angel relationship was inherently destructive to not one but both characters evolution and growth. Together - they are stunted. They literally bring out the worst in each other. With him, she's cloying, needy, whiny, and stupid. With her, he's cloying, needy, whiny, and stupid. They share some of the same character flaws - which make it difficult for them to connect to others - such as an inability to trust.And they enable one another to continue to NOT trust anyone, including each other. Although Buffy to be fair, did manage to trust people and did let them in and help her. She did tell them what was happening eventually. Angel, not so much. Trust is a huge deal to Whedon. The guy obviously has trust issues, I can relate. They both lie or hold back crucial information. They both have serious Daddy issues. Both don't like to discuss their emotions. And both have superiority/inferiority complexes.

Together they are disastrous. Apart...capable and mature. Talk about star-crossed. These are two people that you wouldn't want to put in the same room together. They would not only destroy each other, but everyone around them. And have on one too many occasions. They remind me of the two heroes in that Will Smith film - Hanncock - when they get together they lose their powers and can't help anyone. Here, it's the opposite - when they get together they gain power but lose all perspective, they lose themselves in each other and in their desire to be in that bubble of bliss, which is pure fantasy. Orgasm only lasts a few minutes, you have to come back to earth sooner or later. Both are also to a degree addicted to power and well, sex. Power over each other, over their friends. And both fear the power, fear that love of it.

But why drop all pretense and go there? Actually rip the characters and that relationship apart, make them so loathsome that it's hard to take them seriously or even care if they live or die? Why risk alienating your readers? Don't you want them to keep reading?

My guess - is there is going to be a last minute redemption sequence at the end of this thing. With Buffy sacrificing herself to save everyone, which will of course create the Frayverse. It will probably happen after she loses a few people close to her, and her friends abandon her. I'm guessing Dawn's going to be a causality of this - and Xander most likely will hold Buffy responsible. Personally, I want Angel to pay for this more than Buffy. But it is Buffy's book not Angel's - he's merely a pawn or catalyst. (But can't we have him see a demon that he unleashed rip apart his son in front of him? Or better yet, have his son look at him with hatred? )

Anyhow. I have to admit I laughed my head off reading these two issues. They were so bad, they were funny. It's possible reading all those reviews first helped.

Grade? Hee. you got to be kidding me.

Comments

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

When I first read #36 all unspoiled I just found it depressing...
but now that I've read some reviews I can find some humor in it (that has to be an improvement! lol)

Anyway I'm sorry you lost your comic book store, at least in and around NYC there are a lot of others (I'll bet you could have read the whole thing at Midtown Comics, they are always so busy that I don't think they would notice).

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Hee. It helps if you read it spoiled, I've discovered.
Yeah, St. Marks - I was the only person in the store besides the gal at the desk.

Midtown comics is too frigging far away. And I'm just not willing to go that far for these things. ;-)

[ubi4soft.livejournal.com]

Actually rip the characters and that relationship apart, make them so loathsome that it's hard to take them seriously or even care if they live or die? Why risk alienating your readers? Don't you want them to keep reading?

Because he didn't have the opportunity to do this on the shows? In one story he breaks them down to their most despicable flaws, should be interesting to see how he will rebuilt them (Spike got himself a soul, I'm curious to see what will happen to Buffy and Angel). Allie said that after S8, Buffy/Angel relationship will be changed also.

The worst part is Joss kinda handwaves AtS as funky things happened there, but with the license take it from IDW now I really wanna see Buffy Connor interaction.

Thanks so much for the review (it made me feel better)

[shapinglight]

What I find mind-boggling about all this - is that Whedon has managed to do quite a number on Angel and Buffy. He's managed to turn Angel into a loathsome, narcissitic, self-absorbed, holier-than-thou, jerk, and Buffy into a mindless lovesick, narcissitic, nitwit. Kudos. Granted it's not that hard to do with Angel, but Buffy...took considerable work. Most writers tend to veer away from doing that sort of thing. But not Whedon. I can't quite decide if this is brave or incredibly stupid? But you have to admire the effort and detail that went into it. I've read grudge fanfic writers that fans have targeted as masters of character assignation and bashing that didn't do it quite this well.

Yeah, this. The hatchet job on them both has been astonishing. I wish I knew whether he'd done it on purpose or not. With this comic, you just can't tell.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

No, you really can't, can you?

I'm guessing he did do it on purpose. Because...it is so obvious in some places. I mean can Angel be any more stupid? He's taking advice from a talking dog, and listening to Whistler, again! Plus..in the Riley one-shot, they go out of their way to emphasize why Riley is such a cool guy and Angel is such a doofus. It's not even subtle any more. Actually Twilight has not been the most subtle villain.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

The "baby universe" thing is, I suspect, a rip-off of the Qwewq/Neh-Bu-Loh subplot of Grant Morrison's Seven Soldiers comic series (too complicated and unnecessary to explain, look it up on Wikipedia if you want).

I am worried that this whole comic series will end up just as Joss lecturing Stephanie Meyer on not being feminist.

[norwie2010.livejournal.com]

I am worried that this whole comic series will end up just as Joss lecturing Stephanie Meyer on not being feminist.

This is what i came up with in my own review of season 8 so far...

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

The "baby universe" thing is, I suspect, a rip-off of the Qwewq/Neh-Bu-Loh subplot of Grant Morrison's Seven Soldiers comic series (too complicated and unnecessary to explain, look it up on Wikipedia if you want).

Ah. Thanks for the reference. I'd wondered. I think Grant Morrison did the same thing with Marvel. It didn't work for me. But I know Whedon worships Morrison's work.

I am worried that this whole comic series will end up just as Joss lecturing Stephanie Meyer on not being feminist.

I'm feeling much the same way. The last two issues feel like a lecture to Meyer and all the other poor women who were Buffy fans and started writing vampire gothic romances...that they aren't feminists and completely understood Whedon's intent regarding the Bangel relationship.

Sigh. I wonder if he realizes that these people aren't the ones reading the Buffy comics??? Or a small percentage of it?

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

There was one time, a house of worship (I think its the one Willow raised, but not positive), swallowed by the earth, over which they built a city (also swallowed by the earth)...gee, wonder what this place is? Can you guess? Give up?
I think it's hilarious about the house of worship line because Sunnydale's got a lot of buried houses of worship- the Spanish mission the Master was trapped in in S1 and Willow's Temple of Persaplexa or Plexiglass... Pandabear whatever in S6. Not to mention the 47 churches and other religious facilities in Sunnydale at the time it feel into the big crater. What is the moral of all this? Jesus hates Sunnydale. True fax. XD

Does anyone know what happened to Oz's baby? God, we had one character that reproduced normally, and now they're all dead. And does anyone in the Buffyverse NOT have daddy issues? ... Spike, I guess. We never learn anything about his father, but he's got daddy issues by proxy through Angelus, and I suppose Spike's mommy issues make up for the lack of patriarchal issues. We never see Willow's dad, but again, mommy issues. Jesus hates Sunnydale, and Joss hates parents. :(

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

LOL! Yep...Jesus apparently hates Sunnydale - gee can't think why?
(As an aside - I think Whedon borrowed the whole Sunnydale bit from the flick The Lost Boys. Where the old guy states - that's the worst thing about Sunnydale - all the frigging vampires. Ironic that a place called Sunnydale would attract people who hate the sun.)

Does anyone know what happened to Oz's baby? God, we had one character that reproduced normally, and now they're all dead.

That's what I wanted to know. They clearly are not on Spike's ship. So, why did they save Amy and Warren, but not Riley, Bay, the baby, and Oz?
Because they were dead? Or because Whedon couldn't figure out what to do with any of them? Or did he just forget about them? (Most likely the later. Again, these are things a good editor would pick up on. )

And does anyone in the Buffyverse NOT have daddy issues? ... Spike, I guess. We never learn anything about his father, but he's got daddy issues by proxy through Angelus, and I suppose Spike's mommy issues make up for the lack of patriarchal issues. We never see Willow's dad, but again, mommy issues. Jesus hates Sunnydale, and Joss hates parents. :(

I keep wondering what horrible things Whedon's parents did to him?
He got his job from his father. I mean he would never have gotten the opportunity to write Buffy or Firefly or Angel or Dollhouse - if it weren't for his father's connections. And his mother - gave him an excellent education. He also states that he gets along fine with them.

So...what is this? A universal story he thinks works? Because it's getting old and a bit repetitive - the way he is telling it.

[norwie2010.livejournal.com]

And keep in mind these are just my opinions. They aren't gospel.

"Dear Alphonse, men in those days had convictions (Ueberzeugungen), we moderns have opinions (Meinungen) and it requires something more than an opinion to build a Gothic cathedral." (Heinrich Heine, 1837)

Don't sell Yourself short! ;-)

I enjoyed Your review immensely (as i do most of Your writings, but since You mostly write about stuff i'm not really familiar with, i often refrain from commenting).

Thanks for taking the time to write this!

[candleanfeather.livejournal.com]

Your snark was greatly appreciated. I'm still giggling now thinking about it.

Your meta has sparked some thoughts:
- first, for me there's no way the depiction of the characters isn't intentional from Whedon's part. Like you say all their not so likeable flaws are underlined and it's an understatement. So the problem is can these characters be saved in regard to the viewers? I'll hazard an answer: for Whedon it's probably yes because the characters are more than their flaws and he is probably counting on the difference between the "real" characters and their caricatures. I'm not sure though if he's right: Buffy might be saved, after all she has been the victim in all this and has not done anything really horrid. Angel, though, not so sure.It wouldn't be he first time Whedon had miscalculated a backlash.

Now, why this story? What is its interest at least for the author? I can see two: one I'd call conjunctural, commenting as you said on female romantic tales that continue to propose archaic, ultraconservative and damaging role models for the gender relationship. The other one could be the desire to confront his characters once and for all to their flaws in order to be able to make them evolve after that. Put them in a situation of extreme crisis, where there's no way to escape some embarassing questions. From this POV, season 8 could be a transitionnal season. Both seem to me legitimate goals (provided of course I'm not totally wrong), especially if Whedon felt his two lead characters had enough stagnated from an emotionnal POV. Now the question to know if it was done well is another one.

Sorry for the edit, but there were too much typos

[rahirah]

commenting as you said on female romantic tales that continue to propose archaic, ultraconservative and damaging role models for the gender relationship.

The annoying thing about that is that Buffy the character seemed to have moved beyond most of that already. If you have to have the universe literally force your main characters into the damaging gender roles you're critiquing, then you're jousting at straw men.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

Great reviews!

Angel and Spike both accidentally destroy critical landmarks

Not accidentally for Spike! Angel is thrown through it. Spike has the opportunity to avoid hitting Big Ben--"Turn, just turn!"--but then he decides to do it. Spike, as always, is Free Will.

it appears that Lynch's ATF is as I previously suspected canonical to this universe

I still don't think so.

Although, I think should be taken far more satirically than many took it. Also the ending was probably different.

Whoa, why do you think that? Why do you think the ending was different and how so?

Angel: If this is a dream, I'm getting a shrink like Wesely begged.
(Yes, why don't you go do that? And plus - clear shout-out to Lynch ATF. Only the ending appears to have been somewhat changed.)

How's that a shoutout to Wes in AtF? I don't see the connection. *curious*

Nah, no freckles, just a mole or is that a pimple, hard to tell.

You know, I've been a harsh critique of how all the Slayers are physically perfect in this 'verse. But I do believe this is the first time a physical "flaw" has been drawn on a woman's face. That's... GOOD. Though not so fun that it's the face of an innocent woman being used to represent a Power Without Name--so it's the face of someone not to be trusted.

But hey, we're going to keep his henchmen in prison because they are so much more dangerous...you know the henchmen who switched teams and tried to help us stop him.

Ding ding ding! Also, I think Warren and Amy are supposed to symbolize Twilight!Angel and Buffy at the moment and we're the General vomiting as they get it on.

Apparently universe's have feelings and ship relationships, who knew?

I dunno, I like this idea of a mystical connection between god and the world it creates. I didn't like it when it was the Universe itself urging Buffy on... whoa, this is once again Jasmine story. Jasmine possesses Cordy and uses Cordy to sleep with Connor, all so Jasmine can give birth to itself. Here, Twilight possesses Angel, uses Angel to sleep with Buffy, all so it can give birth to itself. I've been comparing this to Jasmine before, but didn't really nail down how exact the comparison was.

Now in Allie's interview - he said they didn't have time to do any character exploration with Spike.

I don't think it'll be devoid of character exploration though. What Spike does will inform us on his character--just as hitting Big Ben tells us this is a Spike who's fully in control of his himself and making his own choices once pulled into the 'verse.

I'm liking the Master more and more because he's the only villian to succeed in defeating Buffy--he killed her twice (in Prophecy Girl and in The Wish)--and he likewise has reason to hold a personal grudge as she killed him, but also destroyed his line by either killing them (Darla) or recruiting them to Good (Angel, Spike). It's a personal battle with fear and anger and revenge at its heart. The best kind, imo. Plus, the Master is the one who set off Buffy's death wish and was a precursor to Angel--Buffy's got to defeat the enemy that she never really buried. Sure, she smashed his bones, but his defeat of her stayed with her always (like how Darla says to Angelus when he kills his father--that death was too easy and now his father will always hold power over him).

In case you are wondering why Whedon chose the Master? It's Buffy's Daddy issues.

Pretty much. And fear of death = abandonment = fear of being destined to be alone. Buffy goes to meet the Master in virginal white (her wedding day), leaving the land of child and becoming a woman, but it goes horribly wrong. Buffy never got the chance to grow up because when she tried to step across the threshold (first with the Master, then with Angel), she was horribly traumatized each time.

Something Scott Allie said about Buffy really upset fans, but I think now it's the central premise: "That girl ain't never been right."

Together they are disasterous. Apart...capable and mature.

Exactly! And I loved the way you broke down how similar Buffy and Angel are, but similar in all the worst ways so that they only bring out the worst in each other.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

But why drop all pretense and go there? Actually rip the characters and that relationship apart, make them so loathsome that it's hard to take them seriously or even care if they live or die?

I believe Whedon is taking Buffy back to the beginning so she'll face that moment that damaged her, let go of Angel and be fully healed. It's therapy by being forced to relive it. I never thought Whedon would do it--actually let Buffy heal--but that's what I think is happening. It's Restless and OMWF wrapped up into one--where Buffy is out of control in acting upon her deepseated psychological issues, she's out of control and made monstrous as her Id is forced to the surface and her subconscious takes hold.

Whedon is healing Buffy and because he recently said "Buffy is me", I have to wonder if he's not doing so because he wants to heal himself. As a writer, I think this is true. Whedon also recently said all stories are born from a place of pain. And actually, I recently had a discussion where I talked about how writing is a way for us to work out our issues, to exorcise our demons. I think that's what Dark Horse and Whedon are doing.

Why risk alienating your readers? Don't you want them to keep reading?

Because this isn't a story for the readers. It's a story for Whedon and for Buffy. I've been saying this again and again whenever someone says Whedon is doing the comics to milk them for cash (not you, but I run across it all the time in fandom)--uh, no. Whedon is Hollywood. He knows where the money is and it's not in Portland at Dark Horse.

This is a story of pure artistic vision. It's a high concept tale not for a single episode, but for an ENTIRE season. We've been watching Restless the entire time in Season 8 and nobody noticed. Actually, everyone did notice it was WTF--but nobody wondered if it was deliberate. Whedon's taken the wacky of the Hellmouth and said the entire world has gone wacky and overblown with power--because the Seed of Wonder, the source of magic, is making the world go wacky. It's 40 issues of global Once More, With Feeling/Restless. It's psychological puppeteering that's forcing the characters to look in the mirror and see their ugly inner psyche. Buffy has to confront that and heal.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

[What astonishes me about the Riley One Shot and the entire Buffy comics arc - is that they go out of their way to underline all the deeply flawed character traits in Angel that most people can't stand. He is not sympathetic in this issue. He comes across as a narcissitic idiot. Who clearly hasn't learned a thing from what happened to Wesely, Cordelia, and Doyle. An on-going theme in the Angel series is that every time Angel tries to help or take you in, he destroys you. He trusts no one, so no one can trust him. But at least in the series - he was sympathetic, we saw it through his pov and to a degree identified with his struggle. It is possible that I didn't give Boreanze enough credit as an actor in conveying that human vulnerability and desire to be good, while failing miserably at it. But I don't think so. I think the writing was tighter and better on the series than it is here. What they often accomplished in a five minute scene on Angel, they take 11 pages to convey here.]

YES. THIS. I don't think I had such visceral loathing for Angel until the Twilight arc, and no it's a charming facet of my online persona that I hate the guy. I've found nothing worth salvaging since he showed up, which makes Buffy's reactions to him so disgusting. And there's nothing I hate more than not being able to relate and sympathize to my girl Buffy, but unless this is OOC for a reason, Joss is putting me into this position.

Granted it's not that hard to do with Angel, but Buffy...took considerable work. Most writers tend to veer away from doing that sort of thing. But not Whedon. I can't quite decide if this is brave or incredibly stupid? But you have to admire the effort and detail that went into it. I've read grudge fanfic writers that fans have targeted as masters of character assignation and bashing that didn't do it quite this well.

I am a student in the School of Emmie, and this entire exercise in character asassination is bothersome to the highest degree for me. If Joss is doing this to be avant garde or something, my opinion of him has fallen, but if this is for a purpose, he'd damn well better do a damn good job of building Buffy back up.

I need to be cheered up now. Should I read Emmie's meta or go watch Vampire Diaries?

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I need to be cheered up now. Should I read Emmie's meta or go watch Vampire Diaries?

watch the Vampire Diaries. Nothing against Emmie, I'm sure it's great.

I am a student in the School of Emmie, and this entire exercise in character asassination is bothersome to the highest degree for me. If Joss is doing this to be avant garde or something, my opinion of him has fallen, but if this is for a purpose, he'd damn well better do a damn good job of building Buffy back up.

Only has five issues to do it in. My guess is she has to hit rock bottom first and that hasn't happened yet. She has to lose a few people who actually mean more to her than Angel, but she's been taking for granted, such as Willow, Xander and Dawn. People who have stuck with her through thick and thin. Who her decisions affect and who trust her.

I don't think I had such visceral loathing for Angel until the Twilight arc,,

Yep. Astonishing the degree that Whedon goes to - to make us despise and loath Angel - the title character of his spin-off series, who he has made quite a bit of money off of. I've told my flist buds who are Angel fans and Bangle fans - not to read the Buffy comics. And to only read IDW. And I can totally see why Angel fans got upset when Dark Horse got the Angel license. (I'm guessing IDW wants to rebuild Angel after this arc or show him atoning for his sins?) But to tear the character down as far as they have done - is...well mindboggling. I didn't think Whedon would do that. For a lot of reasons. Normally? I'd see it as brave. In this situation? It feels somewhat juvenile and unprofessional, depicting a lack of respect for both the franchise and the fans. One of the many reasons I find it exceedingly hard to respect Whedon.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I find myself wishing that this issue really would be the low-point. But, as a wise Gunn once said... there's always more down.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Oh, I suspect it will only get worse...after all Scott Allie is taking over the main writing and plot duties, because it's not like he's actually editing the thing or anything.

[elisi]

Anyhow. I have to admit I laughed my head off reading these two issues. They were so bad, they were funny.
Same here! :) I mean, I liked the Riley one, because I liked all the Riley/Sam interaction. Shame it didn't actually *do* anything.

Granted it's not that hard to do with Angel, but Buffy...took considerable work. Most writers tend to veer away from doing that sort of thing. But not Whedon. I can't quite decide if this is brave or incredibly stupid? But you have to admire the effort and detail that went into it. I've read grudge fanfic writers that fans have targeted as masters of character assignation and bashing that didn't do it quite this well.
This. *applauds* If we ever find out why I'll eat my hat!

[local-max.livejournal.com]

Same here! :) I mean, I liked the Riley one, because I liked all the Riley/Sam interaction. Shame it didn't actually *do* anything.

I feel kind of similarly, but (and I know this requires being more satisfied with the comics story overall than 90% of lj) I liked the leisurely, conversational pace and the thetmatic stuff, even if it ultimately doesn't accomplish anything we didn't know.

I love your icon so much.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Great reviews - and although I disagree on many counts, I enjoy your wit and insight.

I'm a movie buff

Have you watched "Oldboy"? If yes, do you think Joss uses similar structure here? (if my specs about The Master's role are correct). And, if yes, do you think that the 11-th hour revelation may save the season?

Together they are disasterous. Apart...capable and mature. Talk about star-crossed. These are two people that you wouldn't want to put in the same room together. They would not only destroy each other, but everyone around them.

Yes. I guess that's the whole point of the Twilight arc. (Maybe I'm a deluded Spuffy, I dunno, but that's how I see it).

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

No, haven't seen Oldboy, or don't remember it.

I don't think you are deluded. It's pretty obvious that the whole Twilight arc is a condemnation of the Buffy/Angel relationship. Spike/Buffy is barely referred to. So I don't know what Whedon thinks about that relationship. But from the Satsu/Buffy, Buffy/Xander, and Buffy/Riley - I'm guessing he actually like Spike/Buffy. But that's not his interest right now, for some absurd reason he seems to think he has to re-examine Buffy/Angel - which I was pretty certain was resolved way back in S4-7.
But guess not. Leave it to Whedon to drag out a one-dimensional romantic trope for ten years.

[enzialla.livejournal.com]

Nice review, i had a great time reading it, thanks!

[treadingthedark.livejournal.com]

Excellent review. I enjoyed reading it. I like to think you guys are right but there is part of me that just thinks we are just supposed to think that Angel is the love of Buffy's life. I will never ever think that, but maybe Joss does.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Well here's the thing - about the whole "one true love" or "the love of my life" bit? Whedon is making fun of it. I honestly don't think he puts much store in "wild passionate hearts and flowers romantic love".

There's a lot of evidence of this in the Riley One Shot, as well as the Willow One-Shot for that matter. But it is also an on-going comedy act throughout the comics.

1. Long Journey Home - Amy's spell which puts Buffy into a sleep-like coma (hints of Sleeping Beauty here - complete with fairy castle, evil witch, and zombies keeping anyone from rescuing them, while the Witch sits in front of the sleeping princess in her turet room and tells her friends that it must be "true love's kiss" that wakes her.) Turns out?
True Love's kiss isn't Buffy's true love necessarily, but someone who trusts, loves, and respects Buffy unconditionally and has gotten to know her - Satsu. While Buffy is in said coma - she is visited by Ethan who basically makes fun of her romantic fantasies, sexual and otherwise.
He shows up first as Angel - "My love" and she responds, "I just vomited in my mouth a little", then the first dream she falls into is nurse Buffy between Angel and Spike. Her earlier attempt to seduce Xander, costs him his head and she falls into the darkness, the mouth of a demon.

2. Dawn's tale - it's all about Dawn's stupid love affair with Kenny, who she cheated on with his punkish, rock singer, bad boy roommate.
So as a result he put a spell on her - in which she picks the forms she turns into subconsciously - Giant slut, Horse (Ridden hard, put away wet), and Living Doll (protect you from the world and keep you to myself). (Ring any bells? Buffy - becomes superpowered, acts like a giant slut, gets ridden hard by Angel, and becomes his living doll - tucked away in a new reality where she can be his forever (a la Bluebeard, yet another fairy tale) until Xander (as he did in the Dawn scenario) screams out to her and she flies back down to rescue her friends. When Xander and Dawn chat - it is revealed that she slept with the other guy, because she didn't trust Kenny enough to be with him - she didn't trust Kenny not to break her heart and hurt her. So she slept with his roommate as a way to break up with Kenny and avoid that pain.
(Again TRUST is the main bit here.)

3. Willow's tale - she is given a choice between Tara and Saksu as her guide. Tara she realizes is not real, and if she were - she'd be selfishly taking Tara away from where Tara has gone for her own need of Tara - that is a betrayal of their love and trust. When asked by Saksu if she trusts her, Willow responds in an interesting way - she says I trust that you will always lie to me. That you will always try to manipulate and mislead me. At least with you - I know I can trust myself to know these things. With Tara as a guide - I would delude myself, and be unable to trust me. (Again emphasis on what you can and can't trust).

4. Xander's tale is about Buffy - he trusts Buffy and Buffy keeps letting him down. First it's with Renee - who Buffy inadvertently get's killed via her plan in Wolves at the Gates. Next, he trusts Buffy regarding her plan in Tibet - people die. He trusts Buffy with his love for Dawn - Buffy retorts by asking what about how I feel for you, which he waves aside. Because hello? Timing? Buffy gets superpowers (Xander is happy and positive) - but Buffy goes off and shags Angel to kingdom come and brings about chaos...If anything happens to Dawn because of this, I'm guessing Xander may finally snap.

5. Always Darkest...Buffy dreams of Caleb, Spike, Angel, and Warren.
At the end of her dream she's getting married to Warren who killed Tara, while Tara stands next to her as maid of honor bleeding - and every demon she ever fought is in the audience. Spike and Angel are making out in the background. That whole dream makes fun of true love - of fairy tale romance - it shows the nighmarish aspects of it.

Remember - Joss Whedon is not a romance writer, he's a horror writer who snarks at romantic tropes.

If Angel is the love of Buffy's life - expect Angel to be turned into a comedic version of Bluebeard.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

I've read grudge fanfic writers that fans have targeted as masters of character assignation and bashing that didn't do it quite this well.

So much this. It's not just in this arc or the last either, it's pretty much throughout the whole series. I'm not sure what Whedon is doing other than making the characters as unsympathetic as possible and barring some outside influence (still possible, I guess), I don't think either are redeemable. The things Buffy has been doing aren't just wrong or mistakes, she *knows* they're mistakes which is why they're OOC. Maybe they're done the way they are so fans stand up and say "Whaaaa? Something is wrong here!" but that game got old a long time ago with no follow-through.

If this is a commentary on Twilight, etc, I strongly believe he's going about it the wrong way. Making your characters repugnant only makes people stop reading, it doesn't teach them anything.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

So much this. It's not just in this arc or the last either, it's pretty much throughout the whole series.

Agreed. Buffy has been systematically broken down to her least sympathetic traits through the course of 36 issues. This odd story-telling. Normally, you start with a character being at rock bottom and build them up - which is actually more re-warding for the reader. Season 7 had Spike at rock bottom and Willow at rock bottom - built them up. Here, Buffy is allegedly fine and happy in Scotland when we start...and over the course of 36 issues, she is depicted as reckless, stupid, self-absorbed to the point of being dangerous, self-indulgent, and insecure. You don't really like her all that much by the time we hit Time of Your Life - where she kills Future!Willow. By that point, she's robbed a bank, slept with a girl deeply in love with her to experiment and get pleasure out of it, moped after Xander, treated her sister as if she was just a thorn in her side, and granted permission to steal a submarine. By the time we reach Turbulence - you are struggling to like this girl and wondering what happened to Buffy of S7 or the Buffy in the TV series. I've never seen a writer systematically tear apart his lead heroine to such a degree and I think know it is deliberate - from how it has been depicted in the text, and how the editor has commented on it. Now, granted once she hits rock bottom - which I'm guessing will most likely be in issue 37 or 38, hopefully before 39...he'll find a way to build her up again - but he doesn't have much time. We only have four issues left. In the tv series - they started building her up again a lot sooner - or it felt sooner. One tv episode feels like the equivalent of four comics.

This story could have accomplished the same aims - if he constructed it differently and spent a lot less time trying to hide who the villain was from everyone. We should have been following Angel and Buffy stories concurrently from the beginning. Also it should have been done in no more than 20-22 issues. This story is 20 issues too long.

[local-max.livejournal.com]

Ha! Oh, very, very good. I feel a little bit weird about talking about the comics these days, because I feel like I completely understand and even agree with, to an extent, the criticisms. But I'm still excited by the story, for reasons I find hard to articulate. I can't really explain what I like about season eight--I can only explain (as I try to in my review, etc.) what I see in it, what I think the story is as opposed to whether I think it's good. I think you and I have very similar takes on the actual "what" of the story, it's just at the evaluation of the quality where we differ. I like that this is a way of Whedon spending lots of time deconstructing and even unmasking his heroes. Yes, I know--he already did this within the series. But not on this scale, and not with this devotion, and not with this bravery and/or stupidity. Anyway--it's very possible that after 40 comes out, and a month or two passes, I'll look back on the comics and say that they, overall, were a waste, a big misstep. But it's so exciting to have more story right now. Anyway thanks for your review and thanks for making me laugh!

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Well, it is interesting from a purely objective angle what Whedon is doing. You rarely see a writer tear apart his two leads - the two protagonists of his franchise to such a degree and in such a deliberate and humorous manner. OR for that matter - go after a relationship that the marketing people at FOX have been using to sell the two franchises for the last ten years...to the degree that he has. He is literally bashing Bangel, and doing it in a slyly humorous fashion (which means he's also making fun of people who like or enjoy that relationship). I'm not quite sure what to make of that. Or why he'd do it.

In some respects - this reminds me a lot of Alan Moore's Watchmen - where the superhero trope is deconstructed and questioned. Except Moore more or less told us he was doing that to start out with and did not
do it with pre-established characters who had a pre-established fanbase.
He was in a way, for Moore, a bit more polite and diplomatic about it.

Also, the way Whedon is doing it is actually very clever - he is merely focusing, not exaggerating, but focusing on his leads tragic flaws or achilees heel. Their inability to trust anyone, including themselves.
(A big theme in this series - Willow goes on about it in several issues, as does Xander. And it is also addressed with Giles and Andrew - who Buffy states at different points - can I trust you? Guess not. OR Faith - can I trust you - to Giles, and with Buffy, not sure I can ever trust you. Faith actually makes peace a bit with Buffy after the Gigi thing, where Faith is literally put in Buffy's shoes and has to walk in them for a bit. And realizes Buffy did care about her and was her friend - but like Gigi does with Faith, she put Buffy in a difficult position.)
Tendency to hold back critical information. Self-indulgence. Need of Approval. And a bit of an addiction to, and abhorence of power.

Whedon is basically looking at the whole hero trope and deconstructing it. He's also looking at wild passionate, oh my gosh, I love you sooo much I can hardly stand it - you are my one true love - and pulling it apart to show all of its inherent flaws. He's done that before, actually.
He references both pop culture and fairy tale romances. Demonstrating time and again that without trust...it's not love, it's just infatuation.
Glowing starry eyed high - that clouds judgment and ends in tragedy.
(ie. Romeo and Juliet).

All of this feels rather brave and exciting from a thematic standpoint...but it's been so poorly done that I'm not sure it's going to matter all that much or the vast majority of people will get it.

[treadingthedark.livejournal.com]

Hey if anyone can shag a sentient universe and make it like it, it's Spike.

[sarian71]

Hi! *waves hand*

A longtime (sporadic) lurker delurking for a second to tell you that I immensely enjoy reading your thoughts and insights on all things BtVS and everything else! This gem of a review was a particularly enjoyable read. You managed to cover just about every problem I also have with these comics, and I loved your snarky remarks to bits! *sigh* I wish Joss would realize that the end very rarely justifies the means, and that while he's dragging Buffy and Angel to the mud, he himself is inevitably going to stumble into that same puddle in the process. Mud sticks to everything and it's hard to wash it off, and I don't want to see any of them all dirty and icky!

Thank you for this cathartic and, at the same time, delightfully fun reading experience! :)

[nmcil12.livejournal.com]

This need to heal from all her emotional scars and baggage was what I wanted for Buffy and what I thought this season 8 was going to explore. I kept asking myself, what is the one thing that this character really needs? And it was always the same answer - get over all her childhood emotional trauma and long haul bagge. Everything that Buffy has done with men is completely inappropriate and unhealthy. And everything after Angel/Angelus only became worse and more damaging. It was not until Season 7 that Buffy begins to grow up and understands her world. Buffy became little more than a secret abuser and user of the men she claimed to love, Riley, and the man/vampire that she used as her handy whipping boy for all the darkness and hatred and anger that were a part of her.
And she does to Spike, literally guts him emotionally as Angelus does to her in their "morning after."

Dawn being transformed into the Centaur I felt was the symbol for healing that Buffy needed - but also that the healing would come at a great price and sacrifice. As Chiron, in his persona of great healer and wisdom saves himself from eternal torment but also gives his life to save Prometheus from his eternal burden. Of course, Dawn as Centaurette, could also end with her death from grief at the loss of her mate and lover. I want the first Chiron scenario, because Buffy needs healing. And I find that I just don't give a crap about Angel/Twangel now. Unless Joss Whedon comes up with the Greatest Save Ever, this character can only become a parody of a hero/champion after what has been done in this. I hope that Joss Whedon can salvage Angel/Angelus, but it sure is going to take some great story telling to explain his part of the series.

I am still holding on to my hope and theory that Buffy will finally heal and continue the development she made in Season 7 and finally rid herself of all the Angel/Angelus baggage.

I can't help but think that the visual of Queen Elizabeth I, another ruler and warrior queen that was called "Ma'aM" is also a symbol of Buffy. Elizabeth also had terrible connections with the men in her life - and the last one betrayed her in the worst possible way. There are a lot of similarities in the love life of both these women rulers.

Interesting that both Angel and Spike have now been connected with the very start of the series with Angel/Twangel use of "Ma'aM" and Spike being called "your majesty" -

[dream-infinity0.livejournal.com]

i guess everyone here is a spuffy fan. sorry but i'm not one of them but i do want to say that i have nothing bad to say about Spike. I know Spike will never be Buffy true soulmate. If you watched every episode of spike and buffy together, you know there relationship was nothing like the relationship between Buffy and Angel.

Angel was there at the beginning and loved her from the moment he saw her unlike spike.

Spike hated her at the beginning because she was the slayer until he kept hanging around her and until he got his soul. It took him to attacking buffy to realize that he loved her. If he really did loved her why didn't he go and find her after he was brought back from WRH? To me he was just be likeing angel stubborn for his own good. after all they been through i think buffy is still going to be with Angel. and the fact i seen spoilers for the comic # 39. sorry. i won't mention them.